Things That Are Wrong With The World

[superman321]

I saw that and I thought the same thing Poolzer. How to make the military attractive to kids, let them see the 'cool toys' without all the carnage and damage that goes on along with it all.

[serre]

...

*EDIT: I don't know if you can't read the "(from Jazrala) with love" line... that's definitely one of the worst things I've ever seen

[Doin]

I believe the Americans did the same thing in World War II with the atomic bomb. I also remember seeing them writing stuff to Osama during the Afghanistan invasion.

[Doin]

If you ask me, seeing pics like that proves to me Israel aren't serious about a road map to peace. They just want it all to keep going.

I have to question that. Israel are the only country to have ever given up land in return for peace (Sinai to Egypt, the south of Lebanon back to Lebanon, Gaza to the Palestinian authority).
In 2000 Ehud Barak offered Arafat 96% of all the occupied territories and heaps of other things as an introductory offer. Arafat refused and went on to launch the second Intifada which has led to all the problems they have today.

Israel's history has known nothing but war - each time started by an Arab country and each time Israel has won. The time they lose is when there will be no more Israel.

Israelis are tired of war and terrorism. There is no benefit to starting a war with the Arabs as it will only cost more lives on each side. Israel is fighting not for the sake of fighting but for it's own survival. History has shown that Israel needs to be strong and not put up with any bullshit.

[Leighton]

In 20 years from now, the USA will have a bigger Muslim population than Jewish. Add 20 years on that so that enough are of voting age and think about how the leadership there will have to address that.

Can you really see $6billion in aid to Israel to continue in 40 years time?

No doubt Israel and the Jews have had a shitty run of it, but frankly they were where the Palestinian's were 50 years back and I can see them going straight back to it in another 50.

[Doin]

That would only make a difference if the muslim population outnumbered the non-muslim population, which it would take many years to do.
There are only 17 million Jews world-wide so it's not so hard to be outnumbered.

[Leighton]

But it's only America that's openly supporting Israel. Everyone else wants restraint. When the tables in the US turns, they'll have to call for restraint too. True that the anti-muslim feeling will keep on for at least those 2 generations, but in that time it'll be interesting to see how much power and influenece a "Muslim-lobby" could achieve. Saudi Arabia could easily buy it's way into the American way with oil, but it'll be impossible to tell what Muslims would think of that collaboration.

Anyway, I feel this week's escalation has more to do with putting neighbours in their place than getting back these kidnapped soldiers. Lebanon especially has made a lot of inroads lately. This will set them back many years.

[Doin]

The world tends to turn it's back on Israel (with the exception of America)as Israel is usually considered to have the moral high ground. For example, when suicide bombers destroy a school bus it's the 'plight of the desparate Palestinians that led the guy to do that'. But when the Israeli military does something that results in civillian death, the world condems Israel. There certainly is a double standard that exists whenever Israel is concerned.
However, one must consider this....
The Israeli military is one of the world's best. They are most certainly one of the most experienced armies in the world when it comes to actual combat. They have lived in almost a constant state of war for 50 years.
In other words....they know what they are doing.
They have not taken this action out of pure anger. They knew exactly what kind of reaction they would get and the possible consequences. Whether we agree with them or not, the Israelis know what they are trying to acheive out of this would not have entered into this situation without proper forethought and consultation with experts.
It is sad that so many people have died because of this, however in order to get to Hizbollah you have to reach them where they hide - in the middle of civillian areas. This is a common tactic of terrorism.

By the way, I posted something in a similar topic which explains the situation as it stands. It's quite good.

[Leighton]

however in order to get to Hizbollah you have to reach them where they hide - in the middle of civillian areas. This is a common tactic of terrorism.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7926/343233zr2.jpg

Hezbollah were in this ambulance?

I can't help but giggle when I hear shit about how brilliant the Israeli army is and these accidents still happen. A UN lookout is bombed? Accident. Oh, a random US Navy ship got bombed to all shit? Accident. Shit, if a Muslim did this they'd be hung out to dry. What exactly is the difference between the USS Cole and USS Liberty attacks, btw? Except the Cole one caused minimal deaths and damage compared to the Liberty.

Oh well.

[Fadingtoblack]

where they hide - in the middle of civillian areas. This is a common tactic of terrorism.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7926/343233zr2.jpg

Hezbollah were in this ambulance?

Absolutely not wanting to get into this, but...


Leaving aside for the minute, specific circumstances - such as that ambulance - It is the oldest trick in the book to hide your soldiers amongst civilian targets. Whether this was the case in this situation or not, I don't know, the point remains the precedent has been set over and over.


I remember reading about some Australians that went to Iraq to stick up for Saddam (before the war), and while they expected to be place in hospitals and food storage, they were instead placed in weapons factories.
Now this is the opposite of the situation at hand true (civilians at military, as opposed to millitary at civilian), but serves as a good example.


I have no wish to be involved in this argument, I have not expressed any opinion either way the subject.


I am just pointing out that what Doin stated is correct, posting your fighters in civilian targets is a very common practice amongst groups like these.


...well I'll let you get back to it