Massacre At Virginia Tech

[OutlawTorn81]

Although I think OutlawTorn has some reasonable points, I think he is exaggerating in some stuff: it's not a crime motivated by a hatred for women. If he was gay and killed his new boyfriend, was it a crime motivated by hatred of what? If he had a dispute with a guy who happened to be black was it a racial crime? And if he had a dispute with a fellow South Korean? It would be just a "regular" crime...

Anyway, a tear came out of my eye while watching the memorial service. I'm so far away from that really so many many miles away and still... I have a problem with young people dying...

We don't really know what his motivations were. I don't think that we ever will. I'm mostly just putting out a hypothesis that's based on what I've read from various sources on it, and it seems like this was in party motivated by some desire to exact revenge against his ex-girlfriend. Any time that there is that type of dynamic involved, it is entirely reasonable to believe that there is some sort of larger woman-hating involved. I don't know the details on those who were killed; it doesn't appear to be as clearly motivated by a hatred of women like the Ecole Polytechnic or the Amish school killings, but when your starting point on a massacre is to make sure you kill your ex-girlfriend, it's not beyond the pale to suggest that he had some serious issues pertaining to women. It's also very clear from his plays and what-not that he was a very twisted individual with no shortage of hatred and sociopathic behaviour. It may not be localized to a hatred of women, but I think that it plays a significant piece in this puzzle.

Thanks also to Kat for the nice words. To me, any use of that word is only for one purpose. There is no parsing of its definitions or uses; it is meant to dehumanize and compartmentalize a human being into a single part. It can be used as "just another swear word," but ultimately that's what it means. It's not as versatile as the word "fuck," as George Carlin has famously made clear, its sole usage is, as I said, to reduce a person--usually a woman--to a part. I'm not as strict a linguist as someone like Chomsky (someone whose political leanings I loathe) but I do place a high value on words and their meaning, and that word is one that is too commonly and too flippantly used, which reduces its hurtfulness except when it is used against someone who is not so desensitized to it. Thanks again.

[MetDream]

My friend found this info:

want some insight into the mind set of this sicko, I found these two documents interesting.

The search warrant, including inventory of items seized from his dorm room.
The paper he wrote that caused his teacher to call the police

Boy after reading that paper it really feels like this was coming. Particularly troubling is this paragraph:

I hate him. I must kill Dick. Must kill dick. Dick must die. Kill Dick... Richard McBeef. What kind of name is that? What an asshole name. I don't like it. And look at his face. What an asshole face. I don't like his face at all. You don't think I can kill you, Dick? You don't think I can kill you? Gotcha. Got one eye... Got the other eye.

Really sick stuff. And as lucky mentioned earlier he did shoot one girl in the eye. The paper is really eye opening about this guy..I read a quote from his teacher that said he was intelligent, but after reading that I'm gonna have to disagree. This guy repeatedly used incorrect grammar and punctuation. It annoys me to no end when people use ? instead of ! or vice versa and this prick did it all over the paper. Overall that paper doesn't strike me as college level...

[OutlawTorn81]

His ex-roomies also let us know that he was a serial stalker of college women. That, shooting a girl right in the eye, the ex-girlfriend angle, the evidence is piling up pretty solidly that this young man hated women.

And dgamemetal, don't be ignorant. Dawson College, Jane Creba, and the Ecole Polytechnic happened right here in Canada. We're neither America nor a "country full of terrorists," so that renders your statement fully inoperative and false.

Honestly, people, stop trying to paint the United States as a repository of evil and the exclusive land where people are killed by gun violence.

[dmegametal#1]

Sorry Outlaw..i posted a wrong quote from another board!!

[Judge B]

My friend found this info:

want some insight into the mind set of this sicko, I found these two documents interesting.

The search warrant, including inventory of items seized from his dorm room.
The paper he wrote that caused his teacher to call the police

Boy after reading that paper it really feels like this was coming. Particularly troubling is this paragraph:

I hate him. I must kill Dick. Must kill dick. Dick must die. Kill Dick... Richard McBeef. What kind of name is that? What an asshole name. I don't like it. And look at his face. What an asshole face. I don't like his face at all. You don't think I can kill you, Dick? You don't think I can kill you? Gotcha. Got one eye... Got the other eye.

Really sick stuff. And as lucky mentioned earlier he did shoot one girl in the eye. The paper is really eye opening about this guy..I read a quote from his teacher that said he was intelligent, but after reading that I'm gonna have to disagree. This guy repeatedly used incorrect grammar and punctuation. It annoys me to no end when people use ? instead of ! or vice versa and this prick did it all over the paper. Overall that paper doesn't strike me as college level...

After 5-10 years, somebody makes a film about this poor bastard and this shooting.

[MetDream]

I bet it wont even take that long...

[Bob Garage]

to be honest there has been far to much over reaction to my use of one word in this thread. It was not used in a misoganistic (spelling?) way. It was purely used to vent my anger of the idiot Bush. reading through the thread only outlaw torn seems really offended by it and only outlaw torn seems to have taken it that I was using it against women and not Bush. Hey if I offended you sorry, but personally I use the word all the time and I think its the strongest word to use when describing such and idiot as Bush.

On to the topic at hand. At first with the news I though it was just another result of poor gun laws in America, I didn't get worked up about it until I heard the comments from Bush's press secretary (after the incident) that "The President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms".

now put yourself in the shoes of a parent who's kids has just been shot in this. how would you feel if even after this Bush is coming out and basically saying "yeah, but he had the right to carry a gun". He might as well have said "hey I'm happy he did it".

I am totally against Bush and always have been, his war for the iraqi oil is pointless and thousands are dying because of his decision to go there. And his gun laws result in people getting massacred like this, and these sort of incidents are happening at least twice a year if not more in the US.

yes other countries have ahd the same incidents, and there is no way to stop the psychos, but it happens all the time in the US because guns are so easy to get a hold of. The kid just walked into a gun shop and bought the gun with his credit card. they let him "because he looked like a nice kid" (according to uk news this morning). no one can argue that that does not show just how poor US gun laws are!

No Bush is not directly responsible for this incident, but his action show just what a "c***" he is toward this issue!

[OutlawTorn81]

Well Bob, as a very great President of the United States once said, "I would rather be right than be popular." I couldn't care less if I'm the only person here that stands up against the use of that vile word and every other person in the thread was using it to describe Bush, his press secretary, Condi Rice, Alexa Macdonough, their ex-girlfriend, Belinda Stronach, or the girl who lives down the block. I've often found that being right means a lot more to me and does more for me than being on any kind of popularity bandwagon.

Whether or not you like it, Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms. The President, through his press secretary, is speaking in defence of the Constitution of the United States of America. That's important. They are not "his gun laws," these laws have preceded Bush by generations and they will succeed him by generations. Finger-pointing at Bush is irrational and illogical. The man who occupies the office is not the totality of the United States and its laws. If you want to talk about a country in that fashion, talk about a place like Iran or Syria or Saddam's Iraq. The man represents the office, he is not the office.

The British paper that reported the murderer getting the gun in that fashion is ignorant and willfully obscuring the full truth in order to make a political point and paint a caricature of American gun laws that they obviously don't know about. Each US state also has its own laws and regulations. This is what happens in a federal state, which is something very different from Britain's unitary state. Every state, be it New Jersey, California, or Virginia, has their own codes on lawful procedure for buying a gun. It's something that I see happening all the time in other countries when they report on American events. He had to pass a background check and other checks required by the law in Virginia. A person cannot, by law, just walk up to a counter, say they want a gun, and walk right out the front door. It just doesn't happen that way. Your British media paper is willfully misleading you to make a point that is reflected in their anti-American/anti-Bush position, something which you appear all too happy to latch onto and mouth off vulgarities that are insulting and degrading.

[Judge B]

Haven't read much about Outlaw's posts but it seems many Europeans are missing the point that we're talking about totally different country here than any of the European ones.

What I think:

For starters, there's lot of guns in the country, legal and illegal. Culture is little different and so attitudes. People are afraid of something all the time. Lot of immigrants = lot of crime.

Lots of guns -> criminals can get one easily

Which means risk getting robbed with gun is really high.

By tightening gun laws -> Civilians can't do shit. Calling police takes time and you've probably been killed or robbed by the time they show up. Criminals would be happy if this happens.

Current gun laws -> One can get gun easily. Which means wackos can do massacre if they "want".

Guns are useless without bullets, but you can scare a criminal with unloaded gun. What I've understood you can buy bullets like groceries from places like Wal Mart. Not good.

Legalizing concealed weapons is a good thing if it can scare criminals off, which it probably does.

So basically what I think is that USA has reached the point where any big step regarding gun issues just makes things worse. If people would let go of their guns, crime would probably increase. But then if people get even more guns and are ready to shoot everything that moves...not good.

Turning America's guns to flowers is impossible. That ship sailed a long time ago...

I'm not Americano so some of this might be assumed wrong.

[Pete-Rock]

Although my thoughts are with the families and friends of the dead I have to say something to the reactions to the tragedy.

I learned: It is allowed to own weapons in Virginia. So the first law the shooter broke was that bringing guns to the campus was NOT allowed. It kinda scares me that some NRA freaks or weapon-owner-clubbers now say: This law is wrong, we have to change it, ppl must be allowed to bring weapons to the campus, because with weapons, the shooter would have been stopped earlier....

WTF?????