Mate, he treated women like crap because he didn't know how to interact with anyone. Not because he hated them. Probably should've quoted the rest of those last two sentences properly.
Like I said earlier, if he was a simple woman hater, there'd be no mystery at all at the moment. Everyone that knew him would have known his personality cause it's a trait that sticks out like a sore thumb. This guy's issues with women rank at most 4th in his fucked up mind. He was jealous of the 'jocks' at his uni and took it out on them almost exclusively after he was set off by his failure to be them. He wanted women, but couldn't have them.
Massacre At Virginia Tech
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Leighton
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Re: Massacre At Virginia Tech
Last edited by Leighton on Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LeperMessiah26
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Re: Massacre At Virginia Tech
Outlaw....
You are not "Putting forward your idea" your basically TELLING us..and that thats the only view that matters...YOURS..
Its your way or the high way...and if we dare to disagree,then we are stupid,and not worth the effort...(You havent said we are stupid,just the comment about "Spelling it out 5 times" Kinda Implys it to me)
Your coming across as a very pompous,arrogant person....like yours is the only view that matters in this thread...people DO have THEIR own opinion...im no different...why is that so hard for you to accept??
"What is your motivation to become a quasi-apologist/defender of a sociopath and a megalomaniac? What do you gain from saying that this guy did not hate all women?"
WTF is that all about?? When,did i defend what he did?? i DIDNT...i merely said i dont think he hated ALL women...and i still think that
I dont gain anything by what i said....what do you gain by trying to bully people into your way of thinking?? Hmm Power? No,as you have none...a sense of "Im right,You`re wrong?...No,as who`s to say you are right? Only you up to now
To put things in a simple manner
He got bullied in school...when he spoke in class,the whole class laughed at him,told him to go back to china,as he sounded "Funny" to the students
He got pushed around,to the floor etc..by Jocks....the others "Rich Brats" Looked down on him,...he was obsessed with a few women..and stalked them...they rejected him,and he got suicidal
He decided to get back at them,and teach them a lesson...the rest you know
The dudes who bullied me everyday at school,i hated them for what they did...does that make me a man hater?? No...just the ones who bullied me
So,why does he hate women?
he hated ALL the people there...not just women
He shot a woman in the eye...so that means he hates women then? And what,you read that in a book? Why is a shot in a womans eye,so significant? what does it define? Or,what did the book say it defined
To me,it just means He shot her in the eye...no hidden meanings,no deep sinister hatred of women
He was a nutcase...plain and simple...i just dont see why you are getting so uptight that others dont share your opinion...and you are insistent that we WILL see things your way....well...i wont
You are not "Putting forward your idea" your basically TELLING us..and that thats the only view that matters...YOURS..
Its your way or the high way...and if we dare to disagree,then we are stupid,and not worth the effort...(You havent said we are stupid,just the comment about "Spelling it out 5 times" Kinda Implys it to me)
Your coming across as a very pompous,arrogant person....like yours is the only view that matters in this thread...people DO have THEIR own opinion...im no different...why is that so hard for you to accept??
"What is your motivation to become a quasi-apologist/defender of a sociopath and a megalomaniac? What do you gain from saying that this guy did not hate all women?"
WTF is that all about?? When,did i defend what he did?? i DIDNT...i merely said i dont think he hated ALL women...and i still think that
I dont gain anything by what i said....what do you gain by trying to bully people into your way of thinking?? Hmm Power? No,as you have none...a sense of "Im right,You`re wrong?...No,as who`s to say you are right? Only you up to now
To put things in a simple manner
He got bullied in school...when he spoke in class,the whole class laughed at him,told him to go back to china,as he sounded "Funny" to the students
He got pushed around,to the floor etc..by Jocks....the others "Rich Brats" Looked down on him,...he was obsessed with a few women..and stalked them...they rejected him,and he got suicidal
He decided to get back at them,and teach them a lesson...the rest you know
The dudes who bullied me everyday at school,i hated them for what they did...does that make me a man hater?? No...just the ones who bullied me
So,why does he hate women?
he hated ALL the people there...not just women
He shot a woman in the eye...so that means he hates women then? And what,you read that in a book? Why is a shot in a womans eye,so significant? what does it define? Or,what did the book say it defined
To me,it just means He shot her in the eye...no hidden meanings,no deep sinister hatred of women
He was a nutcase...plain and simple...i just dont see why you are getting so uptight that others dont share your opinion...and you are insistent that we WILL see things your way....well...i wont
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Danallica
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Re: Massacre At Virginia Tech
LeperMessiah26 wrote:He shot a woman in the eye...so that means he hates women then? And what,you read that in a book? Why is a shot in a womans eye,so significant? what does it define? Or,what did the book say it defined
To me,it just means He shot her in the eye...no hidden meanings,no deep sinister hatred of women
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Luís
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Re: Massacre At Virginia Tech
Good post.LeperMessiah26 wrote:Outlaw....
You are not "Putting forward your idea" your basically TELLING us..and that thats the only view that matters...YOURS..
Its your way or the high way...and if we dare to disagree,then we are stupid,and not worth the effort...(You havent said we are stupid,just the comment about "Spelling it out 5 times" Kinda Implys it to me)
Your coming across as a very pompous,arrogant person....like yours is the only view that matters in this thread...people DO have THEIR own opinion...im no different...why is that so hard for you to accept??
"What is your motivation to become a quasi-apologist/defender of a sociopath and a megalomaniac? What do you gain from saying that this guy did not hate all women?"
WTF is that all about?? When,did i defend what he did?? i DIDNT...i merely said i dont think he hated ALL women...and i still think that
I dont gain anything by what i said....what do you gain by trying to bully people into your way of thinking?? Hmm Power? No,as you have none...a sense of "Im right,You`re wrong?...No,as who`s to say you are right? Only you up to now
To put things in a simple manner
He got bullied in school...when he spoke in class,the whole class laughed at him,told him to go back to china,as he sounded "Funny" to the students
He got pushed around,to the floor etc..by Jocks....the others "Rich Brats" Looked down on him,...he was obsessed with a few women..and stalked them...they rejected him,and he got suicidal
He decided to get back at them,and teach them a lesson...the rest you know
The dudes who bullied me everyday at school,i hated them for what they did...does that make me a man hater?? No...just the ones who bullied me
So,why does he hate women?
he hated ALL the people there...not just women
He shot a woman in the eye...so that means he hates women then? And what,you read that in a book? Why is a shot in a womans eye,so significant? what does it define? Or,what did the book say it defined
To me,it just means He shot her in the eye...no hidden meanings,no deep sinister hatred of women
He was a nutcase...plain and simple...i just dont see why you are getting so uptight that others dont share your opinion...and you are insistent that we WILL see things your way....well...i wont
I feel kind of disappointed by the attitude Outlaw has been having lately, as he is coming as a very arrogant person, almost like looking from the top to the bottom where we are. I don't remember him being like that.
And implying certain things was something I did not like.
But what do I know? I must be a woman hater as well...
(And if there was overwhelming evidence for what you say as you say there is, all the case would be dismissed right now in terms of discussing his motivations, and I don't think any expert in the area did that yet)
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Fadingtoblack
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Re: Massacre At Virginia Tech
Deep breath everyone!
It's been pretty civil so far - but let's not start discussing the poster rather than the issues
One thing I will say though is that it may seem that people are being somewhat dismissive of claims of hatred etc towards women, because lately that's being put forward as the motivation for events left right and centre!
Now I'm not sure if someone works with women, as some kind of experience, or is just very defensive on this issue, but for a lot of things lately, and using this thread as an example - when a person goes on a shooting spree and mows down a classroom, the first thing I assume is definitely NOT - well he must hate women then, the misogynist. Maybe that's just me though...
It's been pretty civil so far - but let's not start discussing the poster rather than the issues
One thing I will say though is that it may seem that people are being somewhat dismissive of claims of hatred etc towards women, because lately that's being put forward as the motivation for events left right and centre!
Now I'm not sure if someone works with women, as some kind of experience, or is just very defensive on this issue, but for a lot of things lately, and using this thread as an example - when a person goes on a shooting spree and mows down a classroom, the first thing I assume is definitely NOT - well he must hate women then, the misogynist. Maybe that's just me though...
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OutlawTorn81
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- Country: Canada
Re: Massacre At Virginia Tech
There's a lot going on here that I have to address, because some of the comments targeting me cannot go without a response. I'll address each of you individually.
LeperMessiah26,
I'm not (in ALL CAPS!) telling you what to think, I'm putting forward my take on this, backing it up with credible theory and actual evidence, and seeing it rejected out of hand with no compelling reason. If I were so "pompous" and "arrogant," why would I give a rat's ass about what any of you think and even bother posting and responding in the first place? As for my "gain," I'm only hoping to raise awareness about the prevalence of woman-hating--something that affects everybody and is so prevalent as to be almost invisible sometimes--and get you folks to look at things a little more deeply. I gain from intelligent discussion, that's my benefit. If you don't agree with me, fine, but put forward a good reason or two as to why; saying that he "hated all people" kinda includes women, does it not? If you don't think he hated women, give me something powerful that suggests he didn't hate women. It's going to be tough to mitigate and reduce the powerful effect of the well-reported fact that Cho believed he could "see promiscuity" and use that as a reason to hate Emily Hilscher and target her specifically to murder her. Would that not qualify as that male entitlement I was discussing earlier?
Calling me a bully doesn't get anybody anywhere; what does that advance? Oh no, I'm so mean and trying to force knowledge and insight into your head! Stop me now! Is that not the point of a discussion and debate? To advance your point and hope that someone takes something out of it? I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If you think I'm wrong, prove it. Give me a reason to doubt that he hated women and that wasn't an underlying factor in this mass murder. If you can't do that, why go off on a rant that, if anything, supplements what I've been saying from the outset? Being obstinant and saying that you're closing your mind to my perspective simply because it's mine does me no harm, but it prevents you from potentially gaining something. It's your choice, if you regularly choose to stick your head in the sand when people you disagree with are trying to win you over on something, you're shutting yourself off from an awful lot that this world has to offer.
Luis,
I'm disappointed that you, after lamenting how evil and terrible I am because I'm willing to stand up and defend my words as strongly as I can, offer this up: "But what do I know? I must be a woman hater as well..." You're better than that. Like I've been saying all along, prove me wrong. This isn't about you and me, this is about the psychosis of the worst mass murderer in American history.
I've seen a lot of ideas being put forward on TV; everybody right now is fishing for something. Hell, I saw Dr. Phil, one of the most respected people in America, blaming it on violent video games and say that America is raising a generation of potential killers because kids are so well-trained through them. I'm simply putting forward my hypothesis that helps explain, if only partly and incompletely (which is something I have been acknowledging from the outset), why this young man did what he did. If you expect me to just sit here, take abuse, and have my ideas rejected, that's not going to happen. That doesn't make me "arrogant," it makes me willing to stand up and defend myself.
Leighton,
We've heard quite a bit about the guy's personality. We know that he hated Emily Hilscher because he said he saw promiscuity in her eyes. Refer to above comments about how that relates to his male entitlement and belief that he should have access to that woman, or any other woman. Treating women like crap is misogyny. Period. End of story. There's no justification for it. I don't care if he "didn't know" how to treat people. Did he not get the lesson, "Treat people like you want to be treated"? There is no valid reason to treat a woman like crap or accuse her of having promiscuity in her eyes and killing her because of it. Perhaps that may be linked to the other woman he shot in the eye? We'll never know. I'll admit that that last statement is probably reaching, but if he deliberately shot the young woman in the eye, there's a link between that and his espoused view.
And, like I've been saying all along, clearly Cho isn't a simple case. We agree on that--we agree more on principle than I think you would care to admit. His hatred existed on many levels, for almost every type of person around him. However, even if his misogyny was only 4th on the list of his hatred priorities, does that make it less valid and deserving of discussion? Does that mitigate his deliberate targeting of Emily Hilscher as his first, and I believe only specifically chosen, victim? I don't think that it does. That young woman is dead because she was a woman. That's undeniable, and that makes the misogyny angle valid.
Fadingtoblack,
Maybe if woman hating wasn't an underlying factor in so many horrible events, maybe I wouldn't cite it as an underlying factor in so many horrible events. But it is, so I do.
Folks,
This has been an interesting discussion. It's been mostly enjoyable with a very solid dose of frustration and anger. I like hearing what you all have to say, which is why I started this thread in the first place. It's a controversial topic. I don't really care if you agree with me or not. If you disagree, accord me the respect of explaining why and with good solid evidence as to why I ought to re-think my position rather than trying to paint me as a bully or arrogant because I'm trying to inform you of something that you don't know about or haven't considered. If I've warmed over even one person and got them thinking more about misogyny and how it plays a role not only in horrific tragedies but everyday life, I consider this thread and my participation in it a success.
LeperMessiah26,
I'm not (in ALL CAPS!) telling you what to think, I'm putting forward my take on this, backing it up with credible theory and actual evidence, and seeing it rejected out of hand with no compelling reason. If I were so "pompous" and "arrogant," why would I give a rat's ass about what any of you think and even bother posting and responding in the first place? As for my "gain," I'm only hoping to raise awareness about the prevalence of woman-hating--something that affects everybody and is so prevalent as to be almost invisible sometimes--and get you folks to look at things a little more deeply. I gain from intelligent discussion, that's my benefit. If you don't agree with me, fine, but put forward a good reason or two as to why; saying that he "hated all people" kinda includes women, does it not? If you don't think he hated women, give me something powerful that suggests he didn't hate women. It's going to be tough to mitigate and reduce the powerful effect of the well-reported fact that Cho believed he could "see promiscuity" and use that as a reason to hate Emily Hilscher and target her specifically to murder her. Would that not qualify as that male entitlement I was discussing earlier?
Calling me a bully doesn't get anybody anywhere; what does that advance? Oh no, I'm so mean and trying to force knowledge and insight into your head! Stop me now! Is that not the point of a discussion and debate? To advance your point and hope that someone takes something out of it? I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If you think I'm wrong, prove it. Give me a reason to doubt that he hated women and that wasn't an underlying factor in this mass murder. If you can't do that, why go off on a rant that, if anything, supplements what I've been saying from the outset? Being obstinant and saying that you're closing your mind to my perspective simply because it's mine does me no harm, but it prevents you from potentially gaining something. It's your choice, if you regularly choose to stick your head in the sand when people you disagree with are trying to win you over on something, you're shutting yourself off from an awful lot that this world has to offer.
Luis,
I'm disappointed that you, after lamenting how evil and terrible I am because I'm willing to stand up and defend my words as strongly as I can, offer this up: "But what do I know? I must be a woman hater as well..." You're better than that. Like I've been saying all along, prove me wrong. This isn't about you and me, this is about the psychosis of the worst mass murderer in American history.
I've seen a lot of ideas being put forward on TV; everybody right now is fishing for something. Hell, I saw Dr. Phil, one of the most respected people in America, blaming it on violent video games and say that America is raising a generation of potential killers because kids are so well-trained through them. I'm simply putting forward my hypothesis that helps explain, if only partly and incompletely (which is something I have been acknowledging from the outset), why this young man did what he did. If you expect me to just sit here, take abuse, and have my ideas rejected, that's not going to happen. That doesn't make me "arrogant," it makes me willing to stand up and defend myself.
Leighton,
We've heard quite a bit about the guy's personality. We know that he hated Emily Hilscher because he said he saw promiscuity in her eyes. Refer to above comments about how that relates to his male entitlement and belief that he should have access to that woman, or any other woman. Treating women like crap is misogyny. Period. End of story. There's no justification for it. I don't care if he "didn't know" how to treat people. Did he not get the lesson, "Treat people like you want to be treated"? There is no valid reason to treat a woman like crap or accuse her of having promiscuity in her eyes and killing her because of it. Perhaps that may be linked to the other woman he shot in the eye? We'll never know. I'll admit that that last statement is probably reaching, but if he deliberately shot the young woman in the eye, there's a link between that and his espoused view.
And, like I've been saying all along, clearly Cho isn't a simple case. We agree on that--we agree more on principle than I think you would care to admit. His hatred existed on many levels, for almost every type of person around him. However, even if his misogyny was only 4th on the list of his hatred priorities, does that make it less valid and deserving of discussion? Does that mitigate his deliberate targeting of Emily Hilscher as his first, and I believe only specifically chosen, victim? I don't think that it does. That young woman is dead because she was a woman. That's undeniable, and that makes the misogyny angle valid.
Fadingtoblack,
Maybe if woman hating wasn't an underlying factor in so many horrible events, maybe I wouldn't cite it as an underlying factor in so many horrible events. But it is, so I do.
Folks,
This has been an interesting discussion. It's been mostly enjoyable with a very solid dose of frustration and anger. I like hearing what you all have to say, which is why I started this thread in the first place. It's a controversial topic. I don't really care if you agree with me or not. If you disagree, accord me the respect of explaining why and with good solid evidence as to why I ought to re-think my position rather than trying to paint me as a bully or arrogant because I'm trying to inform you of something that you don't know about or haven't considered. If I've warmed over even one person and got them thinking more about misogyny and how it plays a role not only in horrific tragedies but everyday life, I consider this thread and my participation in it a success.