What has happened?

[vht]

I haven't noticed any of this on this forum. I guess I'm still somewhat new around here, but every person I've traded with from here has been a pleasure to deal with. No drama, just easy, hassle-free trading.

But overall, I've been trading for 10 years and I'm regarded as one of the largest Manson collectors. Back in the day before DVD became popular, there were a lot of poor quality audio shows that were being hoarded by a few select traders (None of them were the tapers). As my list grew, myself along with a couple other traders at the time were able to acquire those shows. We collectively decided to shake up the community by torrenting those NFT shows as a big "fuck you" to few that were being greedy with them. If we never did that, a lot of those shows probably would've gone uncirculated forever since all those traders have dropped out of the community a long time ago. But now those shows are out there, freely available.

Nowadays, there a few new traders to the Manson community and it's same old story all over again. They're filming his more recent shows and always slapping the NFT label on. But I don't really care. Manson is a poor live performer nowadays and his recent shows have almost no appeal to me. I haven't even bothered to reach out to any of these guys for a trade. A couple times I've been contacted with demands like 8:1 or wanting to sell it to me. I tell them "No". So they continue to sit there with their NFT shows that they'll probably never trade. Oh well, I'm not losing sleep over it.

[Tappy]

The problem is there will always be people who will hoard and put RT/NFT on whatever they want. And there will always be people who fuck other people over to get what they want, unfortunately it seems there's a few more here than with other bands, at least with my experience.

I've been screwed over 3 times with my Sydney master from people from here, and it looks like I will be a 4th time, and that has never happened to me before. I'm not saying this is the worst community for it, it's just that in my experience it is.

It seems to me that there's a lot of people who want to get their name on a show i.e. authored by..., menu's by..., transferred by... etc etc. It's not about the community anymore, it's all about making a name for yourself and getting the most or rarest shows. Which is a shame because there really are some great people in this community. Most people here would know that Suicidal Tendencies is my favourite band, yet there is no such community as this which shares shows. Well there was but it died a long time ago.

When it comes to getting a Suicidal show, I generally don't have any problems getting my hands on it once I know it's out there, only twice that I can think of (one wasn't trading any more and the other only wanted Offspring shows for it) but other than that I usually can get any new Suicidal show I want. With Metallica shows though, it's RT this, NFT that, or I want 5 shows for my master or some bullshit like that. It's gotten to the point where the casual fan won't get to see these shows. The way I see it is these people who are ruining it for others need to be outted everywhere, not just in house. Put the word out that these are the people ruining it for everyone else, these are the people selling shows, these are the people ripping everybody off, these are the people hoarding shows and post there names on every damn forum and website you know and spread the word that you are dealing with these people at your own risk and are not endorsed within the community as a whole. It might not stop them from doing what they are doing but it will spread awareness that the community is distancing itself from these people who are poisoning the community.

Personally, if you have a show that is hard to get or rare, share the love. I have shared many Suicidal shows (even a couple of Metallica shows) and there is not a single show in my collection (from any band) that is listed RT/NFT... never has been, never will be.

[hellawaits77]

I don't trade anymore, but I want to return to the hobby. Am engaged and getting married this summer, and I was just hired by my city's Police Department, so I don't have a ton of free time. Whenever I try to arrange something with someone I don't know, it's typically unpleasant.

It used to be like "Hey, I'm interested in your Metallica master. I'd like to trade for it, here's my list." And the person would either politely refuse (usally polite, at least!), or check out your list and tell you what they'd like in return. Now everyone wants everything on Blu Ray. Understandable, but no one likes it when I say "I'm sorry but my computer processes BD very slow, and I don't have the time to author to BD. I'll gladly author to DVD, and the vid will remain in high quality HD". Nope, not good enough. What really bugs me, probably more than anything else, is the amount of people who want "raw hd files". Yeah, you got it. Gonna send you my raw HD files so you can sell them. I still film shows and upload to YT (I'll author them eventually), and I constantly get people that ask for "raw HD files".

It sucks, it's not the same anymore. I'm hoping once Metallica starts to tour again consistently, we can at least trade our recordings here.

[hrgiger]

I think the confusion is that too many old timers are trying to carry over the 'trade' snail mail blank cdrs/dvdrs/vhs media mentality to new 'share' torrent FREE reality. if everyone would just share the fucking things then everyone would happy. No one would buy from bootleggers if they already have what they are selling. While I agree that there are too many people authoring shows for glory, I feel there are traders who sit on their lists that give them the same feeling of grandeur, rejecting those that are 'unworthy,' muhahahahahahahahahhahahahaa!
my biggest problem however is that many of these big fucking time traders are on Dime and elsewhere if you look up their stats they have a great ratio, they have downloaded a terabyte or more of stuff they need, but they haven't made one single fucking comment nor have they uploaded anything, in almost 10 years!! now if you look at their list and they have so much awesome small time stuff that no one wants but you are interested in, they won't even acknowledge you (you pathetic POS.) IMO those people need to be unplugged from Dime and if they want to play by the OLD rules they can do it that way.

[zarko]

I think the confusion is that too many old timers are trying to carry over the 'trade' snail mail blank cdrs/dvdrs/vhs media mentality to new 'share' torrent FREE reality. if everyone would just share the fucking things then everyone would happy. No one would buy from bootleggers if they already have what they are selling. While I agree that there are too many people authoring shows for glory, I feel there are traders who sit on their lists that give them the same feeling of grandeur, rejecting those that are 'unworthy,' muhahahahahahahahahhahahahaa!
my biggest problem however is that many of these big fucking time traders are on Dime and elsewhere if you look up their stats they have a great ratio, they have downloaded a terabyte or more of stuff they need, but they haven't made one single fucking comment nor have they uploaded anything, in almost 10 years!! now if you look at their list and they have so much awesome small time stuff that no one wants but you are interested in, they won't even acknowledge you (you pathetic POS.) IMO those people need to be unplugged from Dime and if they want to play by the OLD rules they can do it that way.

Totally agree!
And another thing that I thought of reading this conversation here. Why should trading had to turn to a market rule? I mean, each time we label a show RT/NFT don't we make it "precious" for all the others who don't have it? And as a result, doesn't that lead to an excessive hunt to acquire it? Do we participate in a community with main purpose and common point to share our love for the band or not?
Just think for a moment what could happen if, as if by magic, there would be no more RT/NFT shows and everybody could share and have all the shows he'd like. There would be no greediness around and all hoarding would collapse. Moreover, there would be no need to ban a person who doesn't respect the community rules...he'd be out by himself, having shows that everybody could lay his hands on, doesn't mean a thing, right?
Some time ago, there was a guy at metfuk, who uploaded these nft shows...wasn't that an important thing?
And another thing, there a lot of guys here in the community who can provide their help, expertise and skills so everybody could enjoy the shows the best possible way. I still have faith in the community although I quit trading a couple of years ago and one of the reasons was the nasty attitude from certain people. I can't accept that the majority here are people who search to fill their psychological voids with the biggest list ever...

[norbinho]

finally we should start seeding these so called RT/NFT shows here on our tracker...i'm away from actice trading since a few years and don't know why certain shows are still RT/NFT (for example RiP 03, all these APRO shows from the 90s)...so many people already have these shows because they were traded.

[norbinho]

Just think for a moment what could happen if, as if by magic, there would be no more RT/NFT shows and everybody could share and have all the shows he'd like. There would be no greediness around and all hoarding would collapse.

now that would be an awesome place for every metallica fan

[jederlacht]

If I can join... I will add this:

@hellawaits77

What really bugs me, probably more than anything else, is the amount of people who want "raw hd files". Yeah, you got it. Gonna send you my raw HD files so you can sell them. I still film shows and upload to YT (I'll author them eventually), and I constantly get people that ask for "raw HD files".

I'd say that the RAW files shows the best possible quality, I'd ask for them if it would be possible, but truly I appreciate DVD version as well. But who doesn't want to get the best? And remember that the big majority of traders (or at least the ones I know) don't sell show. Or if I am not correct, I will be glad to hear some names to be aware..

@zarko
I can't see anything bad if SOME (not ALL or MAJORITY of the list) bootlegs are listed as RT / NFT. Actually that's what makes trading fun. I understand retired traders that they don't give a fuck about RT / NFT, but for active traders it may be "good", because they can try to get these shows. My personal experience: I was looking for three R+ shows (triple DVD) over years and they only were in hands of one English trader. I was trying to get these shows over years and wasn't successful and trust me! When I got the shows I felt very happy because I was very excited about that. That's what I like on it. When you get, it's more awesome feeling I think. But of course listing EVERY show as RT / NFT is bullshit, that's for sure..

I don't say I am correct, but it's my opinion and everybody's got one.

[zarko]

@zarko
I can't see anything bad if SOME (not ALL or MAJORITY of the list) bootlegs are listed as RT / NFT. Actually that's what makes trading fun. I understand retired traders that they don't give a fuck about RT / NFT, but for active traders it may be "good", because they can try to get these shows. My personal experience: I was looking for three R+ shows (triple DVD) over years and they only were in hands of one English trader. I was trying to get these shows over years and wasn't successful and trust me! When I got the shows I felt very happy because I was very excited about that. That's what I like on it. When you get, it's more awesome feeling I think. But of course listing EVERY show as RT / NFT is bullshit, that's for sure..

I don't say I am correct, but it's my opinion and everybody's got one.

I can understand what you mean, it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a question of what community we want to have in my opinion.
I know that filmers do a hard job risking to tape their favourite band, it's up to them to decide whether they want to share their master or not and under which conditions. As far as I can recall, nft had this meaning, the show stays in until the filmer gets back what he wants for his master, but now this is just a battle of egos. I, too, would enjoy many shows that I'm missing, I already contributed in the past for shows the community acquired, I had a list with RT shows but soon I realised that doesn't make me happy, I didn't enjoy hiding behind secret lists, frustrating with whom I should get in touch with, what to say and spending all my attention and time to get/trade a show adopting politics that I wasn't neither familiar to nor satisfied to use.
Now I get more joy when I can share with a few people out there, and believe me, I don't either have time to watch all the shows I've gathered through the years. I shared all the work I was allowed to, authorings and covers, many times with my own personal expenses and I never forget that it was an old member here, Tayfun from Turkey, who helped me start building my list showing such a great attitude.

But as you said, this is just my personal opinion

[Tappy]

My personal experience: I was looking for three R+ shows (triple DVD) over years and they only were in hands of one English trader. I was trying to get these shows over years and wasn't successful and trust me! When I got the shows I felt very happy because I was very excited about that. That's what I like on it. When you get, it's more awesome feeling I think.

My problem with that is that when you finally get the show it is shit quality, you've wasted all that time for a piece of crap. I understand what you are saying but if that happened to me and it turned out it really was a piece of crap show I'd be seriously pissed knowing I've worked so hard to get that show and it turned out to be one of the worst shows out there. If the show was for "free trade" I'd still be a bit bummed but no where near as much as if it was RT/NFT.

Not trying to start anything here, I just don't agree with that comment you made but hey, that's just my opinion.