What has happened?

[LeperMessiah26]

What the hell has happened in the 4 years I was away?!!

One of the reasons I left, was because of all the nonsense surrounding rare trade, not for trade. And how people were becoming increasingly childish, ignorant, obsessive, and down right nasty people.
I come back, and it is 1000% worse! What the fuck is wrong with people these days?

Back then, there was at least a little respect, now, there is NO RESPECT whatsoever. It´s fuck you, fuck him, fuck her, and give me the show, regardless.

I see lists, and I have received shows that are marked as rare trade. And they are rubbish! 5 songs shot from 2 miles away does not make a show rare trade. And it seems also, that regardless of quality, or lack there of, everything NEEDS to be put on Bluray....5 songs.....on Bluray....not even shot in HD.......on Bluray......oh yeah, and I only want RT Bluray shows in return.......what the fuck?!

Also, the shit what is happening with Bob´s shows is repulsive. No respect for filmers at all. The only thing a filmer can do against that, is not give the master files to anyone. Only give out an authored version. That is what I will do in future.

There is also waaaaay to much feuding going on. And silly rules like, this person hates that person, so you are not allowed to trade with him. It is directly from the childrens playground at school.

This community seriously needs to wake up. Everyone I talk to says the same damn thing. JW is the poison that has ruined Metallica trading. I say BULLSHIT! It is not just him.....it is EVERYONE!
Ask yourselves, did he always have that many shows? NOPE....how did he get that many shows?....Um....we traded and sold him stuff. Do we still trade and sell him stuff? Yep!

The same people who slag him off, are the same damn people who then go and trade with him, or sell him stuff. I am not saying I am innocent, far from it. I have authored shit loads of shows for him. But no more. I have finished doing that. In future, I will only author for filmers themselves, if they ask.

Do you guys remember GnRosas? And what happened when he tried to sell all his GnR masters for crazy money? Something like $500 a show he wanted. The Guns n Roses trading community told him to fuck off, and he can keep his masters. Also, they all agreed to NEVER trade with him again. What happened? He realised he was fucked, and uploaded every single show for free. But he was still fucked, as his rep was ruined, and no one wanted to trade with him. How do you think a certain person got all the shows from GnRosas? Because of that. He had to have someone else be his trade whore for him.

So, Michael...what´s the moral of the story? Answers on a postcard......

[Sepu]

hey Michael,

in a simple way, everything changed probably like in all the rest of the world, I mean, not just online.
Respect is something that is disappearing each day from new traders and young people.

Metpage was (and is) really quiet in the last years you left, and like u see, I personally think the trading world changed and get worst.

It's a shame but I doubt we will ever see some good times like the old ones.

Chris

[no leaf clover]

Alot has happened in the last four years that's for sure.

To be honest I do think that JW has ruined the trading scene by his behaviour. Maybe he's not the only one to blame but he started alot of fights, caused shows never to surface
by breaking trust and rules again and again and again.
You are right about one thing: people kept trading with him out of the same kind of greediness that also drives JW.
If everybody would ignore him and stop trading with him than the same situation will occur with the GnRosas guy you mentioned.

I never traded with him, I tried to stay away as much as possible. I knew after the first pm I got from him what his intentions were and why he came to Metpage.
Unfortunately I was right.

I'm guilty too for doing rare trades. I did that for a short while. During that period I got sick of how literally every new show was labeled RT. So I quit doing that.
Also the shows I authored back then where labeled that way while I felt that every show should be available to everyone. Although those shows would become available for free trades after a short while.
That's the reason why I seeded my Werchter recording instead of trading it.
I noticed also that respect is gone when I said here that I would film Werchter 2012. I got some pm's of members literally a couple of days after the show with questions like: did you film it and what will you do with it? And when I was during the authoring process they kept asking what will you do with it and when will it be ready and so on. Instead of just waiting for me to announce that the recording would be ready. Like life is only about bootlegs!!

What I don't get is that instead of some traders breaking the circle and releasing some rare or unreleased stuff FOR FREE people keep labeling shows as RT and everybody keeps going along with it.

I also get sick by the use of the words "masters", "provided by" and so on. Some people seem to think that they are really someone just because they are mentioned in the credits
of a burned blank disc.

What I also still don't understand is that we are condemning people who sell bootlegs but fundraisers are ok?
Just because it is supposed to be the only way to get new or rare shows into the community?
In my opinion you can't have it both ways. If selling bootlegs isn't ok then buying isn't ok either.
Also the signal that's been given is wrong I think. People smell money if they know a couple of hungry puppets are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a plastic tape with a concert on it. Sorry but that's how I feel about fundraisers.

[master of rehab]

I know I don't post much, but................too many people nowadays are taking this way too seriously. The real rare gems (from eighties) that would have perhaps come out no longer will, what people are doing is self-defeating. How anyone thinks that a show from early nineties onwards should be RT is laughable. Come on folks, shows from all these eras are ten a penny. Having a show that no-one else recorded doesn't make it a rarity, unless that was the ONLY show they played on a tour. But with standardization of set lists, no show they do is rare anymore. I'm the only one that taped the show in Halifax in 2011 or whenever it was and I just stuck it up on the tracker. Why? So others could enjoy it. Standard setlist, but I know people on here who were at the show as well, I even burned the mpegs and sent them to someone. RT/NFT for recent shows is hilarious to me.

Nowadays I record shows for myself to enjoy, don't actively collect anymore cause I got a 7 month old and life has changed. Everything I have taped is available (eventually) to anyone who wants it. Only one metallica show, but many many other bands. Right now, tapers are scared to release their stuff in case someone takes it and authors it without giving them credit. Meh, Personally i don't really care who gets it, if they enjoy watching it

Anyway, just my $0.02.

[jederlacht]

Been to Met community since the end of 2012..

When I filmed Metallica // Prague 2012, I wanted to trade with Fothermucker and was given JW's e-mail instead of Fothermucker's one. So I contacted JW and he kept asking me for the show so I said "yes, but for R+ master". He sent me Bobmetallicafreak's Rammstein // Sydney 2011 master. After the deal I wanted to trade my Met master to other people and he started to swear that he will send my master to other traders for free if I will do this. THIS IS THE KIND OF ATTITUDE OF JW.

I am ok with sharing my stuff, I've already shared a bit of my work. But if I ever film Metallica again, it will stay unreleased because I don't want people like JW to have it. And during the time, I am learning that he's not the only from Met trading scene, who is bad, but truly, he is THE WORST...

I agree, 5 songs BR shows marked as NFT/RT, that's insane. But you can do nothing, because people will keep doing it I guess. Anyway if I film a band, I want some master in return. Because it means you will not break the NFT rule most likely, if I have your own recording. That's the problem of (for example) JW, because he never films and that's why he's so disrespectful to other filmers. He's just guy who think he can get everything and don't need to livin' up to his promises.

My opinion. Blame me or not..

[deadone]

agree and its only getting worse.
i cant remember the last time i traded with any1 from here for met shows.
so much negativity from certain people its not worth the hassles.

i myself have found a couple of other traders who are not members here and now i mostly only trade for nightwish and the like.
so far hundreds of trades and not 1 squabble about anything, which is the way it should be.
i have 1 particular trader when he receives new shows that i dont have he sends them my way without even informing me.
i also do the same with him.
its perfect and its always nice to see a show coming through your letter box you didn't have and was looking for and it arrive.

regards
mick

[LeperMessiah26]

What I don't get is that instead of some traders breaking the circle and releasing some rare or unreleased stuff FOR FREE people keep labeling shows as RT and everybody keeps going along with it.

That will never happen unfortunately. People have been sitting on proper rare stuff for years and years, and they have never seen the light of day. Partly out of respecting filmers wishes, but mostly due to greed imo.

I also get sick by the use of the words "masters", "provided by" and so on. Some people seem to think that they are really someone just because they are mentioned in the credits
of a burned blank disc.

I agree. It seems you only have to talk to someone about a show, and they a mention on the credits page!!

What I also still don't understand is that we are condemning people who sell bootlegs but fundraisers are ok?
Just because it is supposed to be the only way to get new or rare shows into the community?
In my opinion you can't have it both ways. If selling bootlegs isn't ok then buying isn't ok either.
Also the signal that's been given is wrong I think. People smell money if they know a couple of hungry puppets are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a plastic tape with a concert on it. Sorry but that's how I feel about fundraisers.

I have said near enough the same shit for years. Selling bootlegs is akin to murder, until it´s a show from the 80´s, or an in house feed from 92 or something. Then it´s not a problem to buy it....hypocritical behaviour!

I could turn round and say, "For Milton Keynes 93 it was worth a fundraiser, Mexico too" but, when all is said and done, we all still paid for a bootleg, and that, in essense, is wrong.

I know I don't post much, but................too many people nowadays are taking this way too seriously. The real rare gems (from eighties) that would have perhaps come out no longer will, what people are doing is self-defeating. How anyone thinks that a show from early nineties onwards should be RT is laughable. Come on folks, shows from all these eras are ten a penny. Having a show that no-one else recorded doesn't make it a rarity, unless that was the ONLY show they played on a tour. But with standardization of set lists, no show they do is rare anymore. I'm the only one that taped the show in Halifax in 2011 or whenever it was and I just stuck it up on the tracker. Why? So others could enjoy it. Standard setlist, but I know people on here who were at the show as well, I even burned the mpegs and sent them to someone. RT/NFT for recent shows is hilarious to me.

Nowadays I record shows for myself to enjoy, don't actively collect anymore cause I got a 7 month old and life has changed. Everything I have taped is available (eventually) to anyone who wants it. Only one metallica show, but many many other bands. Right now, tapers are scared to release their stuff in case someone takes it and authors it without giving them credit. Meh, Personally i don't really care who gets it, if they enjoy watching it

Anyway, just my $0.02.

I wish all traders thought like you mate! It is all too serious now, it´s more like a life and death thing, than the hobby it really is!

I am ok with sharing my stuff, I've already shared a bit of my work. But if I ever film Metallica again, it will stay unreleased because I don't want people like JW to have it. And during the time, I am learning that he's not the only from Met trading scene, who is bad, but truly, he is THE WORST...

That´s the thing, to tape a show and do nothing with it, seems pointless to me. If I were to attend a show with the intentions of filming, but would do nothing with it afterwards, would that not be a waste of time and energy? Everyone is entitled to their own view of course, but if I filmed, it would be with the intention of sharing afterwards.

I agree, 5 songs BR shows marked as NFT/RT, that's insane. But you can do nothing, because people will keep doing it I guess. Anyway if I film a band, I want some master in return. Because it means you will not break the NFT rule most likely, if I have your own recording. That's the problem of (for example) JW, because he never films and that's why he's so disrespectful to other filmers. He's just guy who think he can get everything and don't need to livin' up to his promises.

My opinion. Blame me or not..

No blame there mate, you are 100% right. JW never films, and probably never will, as he knows he will get a source or 10 from the show. So why go to the trouble of filming?, when he knows he can go and enjoy himself and reap other peoples hard earned master files!!

agree and its only getting worse.
i cant remember the last time i traded with any1 from here for met shows.
so much negativity from certain people its not worth the hassles.

i myself have found a couple of other traders who are not members here and now i mostly only trade for nightwish and the like.
so far hundreds of trades and not 1 squabble about anything, which is the way it should be.
i have 1 particular trader when he receives new shows that i dont have he sends them my way without even informing me.
i also do the same with him.
its perfect and its always nice to see a show coming through your letter box you didn't have and was looking for and it arrive.

regards
mick

Mick, I hear you buddy. I too only trade for other bands. With one or two people, we share, we trade, there are no fights. When I say I cannot send that due to filmers wish, it gets accepted with no fuss, or 50 emails begging. There is no stress at all, nice and peaceful, fun, the way it should be!!

[LeperMessiah26]

Alot has happened in the last four years that's for sure.

To be honest I do think that JW has ruined the trading scene by his behaviour. Maybe he's not the only one to blame but he started alot of fights, caused shows never to surface
by breaking trust and rules again and again and again.
You are right about one thing: people kept trading with him out of the same kind of greediness that also drives JW.
If everybody would ignore him and stop trading with him than the same situation will occur with the GnRosas guy you mentioned.

I never traded with him, I tried to stay away as much as possible. I knew after the first pm I got from him what his intentions were and why he came to Metpage.
Unfortunately I was right.

Regarding JW, I do not have many bad things to say about him. I can only judge him on my experiences with him. Only once have we fallen out, and that was when I sent him my HDD with shows I had done for him. When he sent back, the HDD went missing, and he was not prepared to buy me another HDD, he said it was not his fault it went missing, and would not replace it. I had a few nasty words with him, and him back to me, and we did not speak for a while. Then, my HDD turned up. It had been lost in Germany, and went back to Holland, and then back to me. The Dutch post office had no clue what was going on. Then we were fine again.

Obviously,with being away for so long, I do not hear what JW has done, or what people think he has done. I heard nothing of that, really. But, I know he is pushy. He tried that a few times with me, but he soon got told to stop, and he did. I think a lot of the time, his English is not the best, and he cannot express himself fully, which then gets misconstrued. But, ignoring him is the best way. I have done that a lot these past few weeks, regarding the Brisbane master I have. He would ask me daily, "can I have it?" I just plain ignored any question regarding the show.

One man cannot ruin the trading scene though, it is very easy to blame just one man. There have been people like him in the past who were pushy, and thought the sun shone from their ass....I mention no names, but the older members may know of whom I speak. The community are quick to kiss the ass of the guy in the spotlight, and are quicker to form that pack mentality, and gang up on people they do not like. Which is basic internet bullying. That, I cannot bare to witness! Especially since the person is no longer a member here, and cannot try and defend himself.

But, he got banned here for a reason, one I am not aware of. I know it sounds like i am trying to defend him, but really I am not.....I am looking at things from an outsiders view, because that is what i am now, an outsider. Many people here do not know me, nor I them. From my outsiders view, all I see are accusations, and no proof at all, people jumping on the bandwagon of "kill kill kill" and then go and trade with him!

But anway, enough about JW. I have said my piece, and would like not to argue with anyone about that topic!!

[norbinho]

just to clear one thing here:

JW has not been banned from metpage...some months ago he asked the staff (for the second time, he wanted that some years ago for the first time) to delete his account here...a few days later he wanted to have his account back which was denied by the staff as.

my 2 "short" cents on this topic here:
a few already said it, let's share shows and not exaggerate this RT/NFT thing anymore...most of us filmers had to deal with this in the past to be able to get even 1-2 shows for stuff we filmed...yes, i admit i'm guilty too having practiced this policy in the past too...now it's nearly 4 years since i pretty much stopped trading (don't have a website or list anymore) because of the greed of certain people who never show/showed respect for others, for comunities and for filmers in their egoism for new shows. this attitude is not only visible in the metallica trading world, but also in the trading scenes for other bands. the sad thing is that some years ago metallica trading was much better and much more enjoyable than now.

BUT please, guys, don't forget one thing, metpage is still a great place for real fans who have the passion for metallica and their music and it wouldn't be fair, towards visigod and the people who created this great place here over 10 years ago, to make everything bad on metpage.

[Crazytallicafux]

There are still a few diamonds in the rough