What has happened?

[zarko]

@zarko
I can't see anything bad if SOME (not ALL or MAJORITY of the list) bootlegs are listed as RT / NFT. Actually that's what makes trading fun. I understand retired traders that they don't give a fuck about RT / NFT, but for active traders it may be "good", because they can try to get these shows. My personal experience: I was looking for three R+ shows (triple DVD) over years and they only were in hands of one English trader. I was trying to get these shows over years and wasn't successful and trust me! When I got the shows I felt very happy because I was very excited about that. That's what I like on it. When you get, it's more awesome feeling I think. But of course listing EVERY show as RT / NFT is bullshit, that's for sure..

I don't say I am correct, but it's my opinion and everybody's got one.

I can understand what you mean, it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a question of what community we want to have in my opinion.
I know that filmers do a hard job risking to tape their favourite band, it's up to them to decide whether they want to share their master or not and under which conditions. As far as I can recall, nft had this meaning, the show stays in until the filmer gets back what he wants for his master, but now this is just a battle of egos. I, too, would enjoy many shows that I'm missing, I already contributed in the past for shows the community acquired, I had a list with RT shows but soon I realised that doesn't make me happy, I didn't enjoy hiding behind secret lists, frustrating with whom I should get in touch with, what to say and spending all my attention and time to get/trade a show adopting politics that I wasn't neither familiar to nor satisfied to use.
Now I get more joy when I can share with a few people out there, and believe me, I don't even have time to watch all the shows I've gathered through the years. I shared all the work I was allowed to, authorings and covers, many times with my own personal expenses and I never forget that it was an old member here, Tayfun from Turkey, who helped me start building my list showing such a great attitude.

But as you said, this is just my personal opinion

[jederlacht]

Well, I actually knew the quality, seen the screens before and I knew all the details about the bootlegs

[hellawaits77]

If I can join... I will add this:

@hellawaits77

What really bugs me, probably more than anything else, is the amount of people who want "raw hd files". Yeah, you got it. Gonna send you my raw HD files so you can sell them. I still film shows and upload to YT (I'll author them eventually), and I constantly get people that ask for "raw HD files".

I'd say that the RAW files shows the best possible quality, I'd ask for them if it would be possible, but truly I appreciate DVD version as well. But who doesn't want to get the best? And remember that the big majority of traders (or at least the ones I know) don't sell show. Or if I am not correct, I will be glad to hear some names to be aware..

I don't say I am correct, but it's my opinion and everybody's got one.

I respect your opinion and understand what you're saying. And, no offense, but it's easy for you to say that as you've probably never been burned in this situation (well, maybe you have - I don't know you). There have been many of us filmers who have had our master's sold by others. That's while I'll never send someone (other than a friend) any of my raw files, and also why I watermark any Metallica shows I film. We filmers take a big risk when we bring our cameras in, so that's why many of us take that type of stand. It's very frusterating and disheartening to do the work of filming and authoring for free, simply because you enjoy it, and then see some idiot selling your show.

[hellawaits77]

Another thing I've noticed: no one likes to do snail mail anymore, everyone wants to do online trades. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but online trades have never worked for me, because I'm lazy and don't like to download things. I like to get my shows on DVD in the mail, not have to worry about burning them, ripping them, etc.

[Dusan]

Im member for few years and I filmed few tallica shows... Why I dont trade for 2-3 years? I havent got reason why to do it? All new filmed shows are fucked up with NFT/RT (show filmed with terrible photocam and taper think how great is it). I have good recordings of tallica (Prague, Vienna) and I dont have problem to seed them with others without any profit (moneys, other shows...). I saw many great old shit shows, but all NFT/RT

I think trade is dead to forever (due its time of fast internet connection).. say me friends, how many of you have "old" snail trade with post? I love that trades with post, is more private, but how many want again and again burn DVDs / Blurays...

And dudes...please respect taper wishes, he cant join show as you!!! He must be carefully the whole show with his cam, after show he have pain on his back, but he did it for you...

//Edit: this time want be taper all on concert and thats bad, because peoples use mobile shits to film and want be a firts who give a video on youtube..

[rusalguhl]

i still do trades via snail mail, i try it online, but its nothing for me...
i dont want waste blanks for high incomplete or YT sourced shows, mayby online is this not so important.


about trading HD-files, total agree with Nick, and its really total Bullshit for Metallica shows, Files w/o LM are never better than authored on BD.

[LeperMessiah26]

So, there are quite a few responses in this thread now, and not ONE post is childish. I thank you guys for keeping this thread mature, and not resorting to name calling and such things.

Many valid points made here, I will give my opinion on a few of them.

I do not have a problem with people using Digicams to film, provided they are good quality. But like Dusan said, people use shit quality cams to record these days, pretty much fit only for YouTube. But, certain people love to aquire these files and author them to Bluray. It baffles me, the quality is total rubbish, they deserve to be left on Youtube.

Raw files. If you give out your raw files to people, then you are asking for trouble. If they have your original raw files, they have free reign to do what they please with them. So tapers BEWARE! Just author your files, and release the show how you intended it to be, you will be better off in the long run.

As for filming, some people are better at it than others. Me?, I am not very good at it, so I do not do it often, only if there is a market for the band. Or, if I know a certain person has something I want, I may tape a band he wants etc etc. It is hard work filming a band, you cannot move, cannot sing along, you cannot really relax in case security see you etc. So I understand when a filmer only wants certain things in return for his hard work, that is his/her right.

RT/NFT. The thing that gets me is, who decides what show is rare? Especially when the people who have unreleased stuff did not film the show anyway. Take me, for instance. I bought Brisbaine 2010 from Dylan, do I have the right to call it rare? Not really, there are other sources of that show, it was not a particularly significant show. I just wanted one particular show for it. I will not get that show. I was just going with the current trend of putting unworthy shows as RT/NFT. The show is no longer RT, I just want unreleased A7X shows in return. To me, shows like day on the green are rare. Unreleased 80´s shows are rare, and also very hard to find Black Album shows are rare. Not source 8 from Vienna 2007, or source 12 of Moscow 2010, why would that be rare?

As for online trading, I really do not mind now. I Just won´t trade online with sites like Speedyshare, or megaupload. I did a few trades with those sites, and my god was it slow! So, I set up a private FTP. I bought an NAS box, and online trades or no longer a problem for me. It is better for Bluray trades, as BR discs are quite expensive to buy compared to regular DVD´s.

[master of rehab]

I do not have a problem with people using Digicams to film, provided they are good quality. But like Dusan said, people use shit quality cams to record these days, pretty much fit only for YouTube. But, certain people love to aquire these files and author them to Bluray. It baffles me, the quality is total rubbish, they deserve to be left on Youtube.

I use a digicam to film and I have walked out with entire shows that I would never have got with a camcorder. Actually one Volbeat show I taped someone close to us got thrown out for taping with just that. I walked out with the whole show in HD. http://youtu.be/ALu06qhwtKE - Jurgen will finish authoring this as soon as I send him a couple of files that were devoid of sound.........Get it from him. He has all my Volbeat shows.

Maybe I am getting old, but guys this is a hobby. Its not life or death. The way I look at it is this. For years I knew that the Milton Keynes proshot was out there. I was there and dreamed of getting to see this. I will never forget when I did and watched it, brought back so many memories of that day. Why hoard things. Let people who were perhaps there get to relive the concert. I am not saying don't get something for your master if you want to, but I am at the point where I don't need anything back from them. I have sent stuff all over the place, and I mean raw files. Ron, Jurgen, Peach, some guys like Ironfelix on Dime, but I need to send those ones again, I guess Russian postal service is er, not optimized. Hell I taped a Trivium show and Jurgen authored it and we gave it to a kid on here who was just getting into trading. It gave him something no-one else had so he could start his collection. This is what trading is about. Not sitting on huge lists of shows you will never watch. I KNOW there are people on here who feel this way too.

I am happy to up some of my masters, metallica -Halifax is already out there, but LOG, machine head, Volbeat.

[no leaf clover]

I do not have a problem with people using Digicams to film, provided they are good quality. But like Dusan said, people use shit quality cams to record these days, pretty much fit only for YouTube. But, certain people love to aquire these files and author them to Bluray. It baffles me, the quality is total rubbish, they deserve to be left on Youtube.

I use a digicam to film and I have walked out with entire shows that I would never have got with a camcorder. Actually one Volbeat show I taped someone close to us got thrown out for taping with just that. I walked out with the whole show in HD. http://youtu.be/ALu06qhwtKE - Jurgen will finish authoring this as soon as I send him a couple of files that were devoid of sound.........Get it from him. He has all my Volbeat shows.

Maybe I am getting old, but guys this is a hobby. Its not life or death. The way I look at it is this. For years I knew that the Milton Keynes proshot was out there. I was there and dreamed of getting to see this. I will never forget when I did and watched it, brought back so many memories of that day. Why hoard things. Let people who were perhaps there get to relive the concert. I am not saying don't get something for your master if you want to, but I am at the point where I don't need anything back from them. I have sent stuff all over the place, and I mean raw files. Ron, Jurgen, Peach, some guys like Ironfelix on Dime, but I need to send those ones again, I guess Russian postal service is er, not optimized. Hell I taped a Trivium show and Jurgen authored it and we gave it to a kid on here who was just getting into trading. It gave him something no-one else had so he could start his collection. This is what trading is about. Not sitting on huge lists of shows you will never watch. I KNOW there are people on here who feel this way too.

I am happy to up some of my masters, metallica -Halifax is already out there, but LOG, machine head, Volbeat.

Nothing more to add!

Like someone said before in this topic: if more traders/filmers would feel and think like this how nice the trading scene would be!

[no leaf clover]

Now we have some very good comments, no fights here like Michael already said.

But now the next step: what's gonna change? which steps are we as a community going to take to make things better? And by we I mean everyone not just a few people.